In a split decision, the Supreme Court decided to uphold Obama’s signature health care law’s individual mandate. In an apparently complex opinion, the mandate has been upheld as a tax, with Chief Justice John Roberts joining the liberal wing of the court.
Chief Justice John Roberts is a conservative who was appointed by President George W. Bush. To the surprise of many, he provided the key vote to preserve Obama’s landmark health care law.
Although this individual healthcare mandate remains 18 months away, many provisions have already gone into effect.
President Obama has said in the past that ObamaCare was “not a tax.” However, the Department of Justice attorneys argued over the past several months that it was a tax and the majority of the Supreme Court agreed.
This ruling is a victory for President Obama, protecting for now that his signature domestic policy achievement remains intact.
I guess the left can’t cry about how the court is slanted.
This will now be played out in the election.
Since President Obama was elected on the promise that “no one making less than $250,000 per year will have any tax increase of any kind” he will now voluntarily repeal the Affordable Care Act now that the Supreme Court has ruled that the individual mandate is a tax. I know he will do that because we all know that Obama kept all of his campaign promises. (insert sarcastic remark here)
It will be interesting to hear this president go around the country explaining his deception.
Stupidest comment I heard this morning (well, I’m sure Michele Bachmann said something stupider, but her voice was making my ears bleed so I had to mute the tv): Marco Rubio, explaining how Romney’s Massachusetts bill was TOTALLY different (paraphased) “Well, it was a state law, and if you don’t like it you can just move to another state.”
Yes, and Marie Antoinette says you should have a slice of cake while you’re at it. It’s just so EASY to pick up and move to another state, even if you have family and a job and a house and all that stuff in one state.
I know it’s not the main point of the discussion this morning, but I thought it was indicative of how disingenuous the Republicans are going to be about what Romney did in Massachusetts v. his position now.
Jennie,
That is exactly why we have 50 different states. If you don’t like the laws of one state you can move to another. Otherwise we would be one nation without states. Texas has no income tax, but no great weather and beaches. People can make a choice. Do I want higher taxes and great weather or no taxes and a different lifestyle? I know that the left would love us all to live under one set of rules (their rules only!) but we are a country of states rights and limited government control (at least we were).
Okay, well you can go live in another country, by that logic, right?
I forgot to add that I welcome our new socialist overlords, and am eagerly awaiting the Rapture or the rain of frogs or whatever the hell the nuts are predicting at the moment.
Jennie,
Discussing anything with you is like eating soup with a fork. Read some history books. We left England rule in order to avoid this type of federal control. And now here we are. Closing in on the financial ruin that we are seeing in the Obama utopia countries (Spain, Italy, Greece). The one thing he did not lie about was his statement that “we are a few days away from fundamentally changing the United states of America”.
We certainly are. November 6 cannot come soon enough.
I think Roberts may be a genius. By his vote he may have helped Romney.
Romney received over $1 million in new donations within 10 minutes of this ruling. They have awakened a giant and the Right will come out in droves in November.
They have awakened a giant and the Right will come out in droves in November.
I really hope so Jeff. I had such an eye opening conversation with some family members while I was back home this week. Family members who firmly believe Obama is the best thing to happen to this country, and thank God we were spared from John McCain or surely we would all be in poverty. I just wanted to say….. what version of reality are you living in? So many people are living in some weird lala land. I just don’t get it.
Jeff, I have not personally insulted you so I don’t know why you feel the need to do so to me.
I could believe all the teeth-gnashing over abrogation of personal rights if I didn’t remember how much the right LOVED the Patriot Act and all of the provisions that allowed for spying on American citizens.
Jennie
Obama must love the Patriot Act too! Even though he said he was going to get rid of it,he continued Bush’s policies and the Patriot Act is still in place.
Shyly weighing in among the news junkies/informed citizens here-
This decision actually makes sense to me. It did strike me as a tax, might as well call it what it is. And it’s not Obama or the Supremes that taxed us for health care, but the Congress who passed the law in the first place. Seems like it should be no problem repealing it like they do other taxes IF the country wants that, right?
I was listening to a conservative complaining about the 5/4 split today. I was reading about how awful a 5/4 decision would be last night by a liberal who expected it to be overturned. See, that’s annoying. I have no problem with 5/4. None. I looked up Dred Scott. It was 7-2, and the worst decision ever.
SCOTUS isn’t the Pope. No promise of infallibility with these people. They do their best. JMO
Jennie,
When you insult Rubio and Bachman you insult me.
Ann,
Simply put…you nailed it!
I have to be honest I see it as a fine- which would be illegal. So instead its being called a tax.
Worried about the Patriot Act PALES to what Obamacare will do to individual liberties…run by some IRS trainee.
Really wish we could leave the personal insults out of this thread. It’s one thing to mock or snark on politicians – we all do that and the conservatives on this and other threads have not been shy at all about expressing their low opinion of Obama. I just cringe when I see an individual commentator insulted – especially when s/he goes against the majority opinion already.
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Ann, as usual, you make a lot of sense and bring a cool head to the proceedings. I wish everyone would take a deep breath. There is still a lot we don’t know. While I favor the legislation, there remains ways to modify or do away with it. It seems peopled are very heated up now, but I’m not sure how that will translate to the voting booth.
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I do applaud Roberts for his honest and fair minded decision. I’m not a legal scholar, so I will leave it at that.
Fair minded decision? He just passed a law that allows the federal government to force individuals to purchase a product, even if they don’t want it, and then apply a “tax” to them if they refuse to buy the product. What’s next? Solar Panels? Electric Cars? Justice Roberts has allowed this Administration (and future ones) an ability that they will not be able to refuse; the right to tax us for non-income items. The most damaging decision I have seen from any court in the last 50 years. (And if I insulted you by disagreeing with you, I apologize).
IDK why anyone would be upset with Roberts. It was 5/4. You should be upset with Congress. They passed the tax.
I don’t actually see it as a fine as clearly as paying a fine for speeding is. If you have other insurance, you are exempted from the Healthcare Tax. You get a tax credit for having insurance and not needing government health insurance. I wish it worked that way for school taxes. I could show them my HUGE tuition bill and get a credit off my school tax bill.
Yes, it was a big tax increase. Unless you already have insurance. Then you do not have to pay that tax.
See? Doesn’t that make sense?
Anyway, the whole thing will play out and it will be repealed, or it will go into effect. If everything is as bad as it’s critics predict, everyone will hate it and it will be reformed or repealed.
Now, about that conscience exemption for religious groups and institutions…
No, I’m not insulted when my opinion is disagreed with. It’s when discussion turns to the actual poster that I feel the need to speak up. Especially, when that poster is the minority opinion on a board.
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I’m sorry some individuals don’t feel it is the responsible thing to do to procure health insurance. I very much disagree. There are many things the federal government requires of me or my fellow citizens that I don’t personally agree with, but I try to look big picture. We continue to rank in the top percent of countries when it comes to personal freedom, opportunity and livability. I believe that will remain largely unchanged whether the legislation ultimately prevails or not. That said, I hope it will make a positive impact on those who work hard, but don’t have health care. We can do better as a country. As for the taxation issue, considering the outcry over something as basic as healthcare, I’m not too worried that there will be all sorts of new wacky taxes because of this ruling.
#Obamacare- Jeff, people already get tax credit for solar panels and electric cars.
Gentle reminder. “Congress” implies ALL of the Senate and ALL of the House of Representatives passed this legislation. Not one single Republican voted for “ObamaCara”. Hopefully, though, next week, IF THEY HAVE THE INTESTINAL FORTITUDE TO FOLLOW THROUGH, repeal the entire “ACA” and end the damage from this terrible law. The ramifications of what SCOTUS ie John Roberts has done today will take a lot more to remedy, if indeed the damage CAN be remedied…talking heads said a new amendment against ‘taxing’ Americans for ‘inactivity’? Not sure of all the legal stuff that can be done to undo the damage this POTUS has overseen.. *sigh* Praying for America!
No- it doesn’t make sense that if I don’t have insurance I will be fined (I mean “taxed”) because of it. It’s just more Big government infringing on personal freedom and the right to make our own choices.
“ObamaCARE” sorry!
#Obamacare- Wow, do you think they’d try to repeal it next week already? That would be a shock.
I really think health care should have been addressed more slowly. I think most people agree there is a real problem with the healthcare system.
Ann-
Now, that I can agree with 😉
#Obamacare- All these silly “taxes” for not eating our vegetables or driving the wrong car can only be imposed if there is a majority in Congress to pass such silly laws. It’s always been true that Congress can impose silly laws. I think our government is set up well enough for reasonable Americans to take corrective measures at the ballot box if silly laws are passed.
I still wish I’d get a tax credit for eating my broccoli. I am all for tax credits. ANd broccoli.
As I get yelled at daily by patients who are already getting their healthcare via my tax dollars(medicaid), I can’t wait for more government intervention. I want to tell these people that are yelling at me, “You think that there is too much red tape and your wait is too long, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet.” 🙂
There are two provisions of Obamacare I agree should be enforced: coverage for pre-existing conditions and equitable premiums between women and men. However, I don’t want to pay for able bodied folks unwilling to work, thereby not able to contribute to their healthcare costs.
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Sky rocketing healthcare costs has arisen because of chronic or serious diseases because people don’t seek help for preventive care due to lack of money. People like Matt Roloff, who was born with dwarfism, are denied health insurance. How do we, as a nation, help them?
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Additionally, the healthcare tax seems burdensome to small and medium businesses, the working poor and middle class.
I will say one this, the industry that will benefit are all areas of healthcare. Jobs will be created (I hope) in the industry , pharmaceutical companies will benefit, hospitals, etc.
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On the other hand, the burdened healthcare tax diminishes companies from hiring, a reduction in force and/or cutting business to not expand. Then of course, consumers have less money to invigorate the economy with disposable income.
Two red herrings in the Health Care Act…..Unlimited dollar on the cap and the equal premium for both sexes.Women were charged more during child bearing years and men charged more in the later years…so it kind of evened out. The 2 or 5 million cap on policies is rarely ever reached.
Also find it funny that a big deal is being made about mammograms and child immunizations. This has been done for years by insurance companies for “Free”
I don’t see any jobs added because of Obamacare. Positions will be cut, because doctors are going to retire, or find a speciality to go into to. No need for office staff or a staff of nurses. I’ve heard that some states are going to ignore all of this. Wonder what will happen?
16,500 IRS agents being hired …maybe being brought on for proctologists.
#Obamacare-
I spent the day yesterday following this story. I tried to watch/read what people were saying on both sides of the aisle to get a sense of how it was received. I know everything has not panned out they way some hoped.
This morning I read this (conservative) article, which I liked because 1. It doesn’t trash the Chief Justice or call him a traitor. I like him. I am glad their was not a partisan split for once. 2. It finds the “win” for conservatives in the ruling, the liberal “win” being obvious. So everyone has something to take home.
I think that is how our government should work. Being an “extremist” on either side is just as valid, IMO, as being in the middle. It’s a big country, and there is room for everyone. I think it works best if people hold fast to their beliefs in principle, but make concessions in practice. The more I read about this ruling, the better I like it.
Most conservatives do not want activist judges. They say they want the legislative branch to legislate. IMO, this ruling throws the law back to the Congress. If liberals want universal healthcare, they are going to have to call it a tax. If conservatives don’t like the healthcare law, they will have to repeal it or reform it. It’s Congress’ job to hash this out and make the necessary concessions.
Here’s the link to the article I liked:
I agree with you, Ann. I like Justice Roberts. I think he made a wise and difficult decision. I think that the fallout from the courts striking it down would have been huge. I hope the congress can make the changes in the future that are desperately needed.
Now the Dems are going around today (Friday) claiming that the tax is a penalty. They say they don’t care what the Supreme Court ruled. First Obama swears it wasn’t a tax, and then when they found that the courts did not like a penalty, they argued in front of the Supreme Court that it WAS a tax. Now that the Court ruled it was a tax they dismiss that finding so they won’t have to defend the largest tax increase in the history of the country. These people have no souls.
These people have no souls.
Seriously? I don’t see the point in demonizing the opposition. Criticizing and maybe insulting (though I had no idea that every time a Democrat was insulted here, *I* myself was being insulted) them is one thing, but demonizing them just skews the arguments so far that there is really no common ground for discussion.
Conservatives can’t have it both ways – supporters of the act can’t be both “soulless” and socialist true believers. If you believe this is being engineered by secret Pinko commies, you have to accept that they are people with a strong POV who believe in what they are doing; there’s no such thing as a soulless zealot.
I wish all of those parroting the “largest tax increase in the history of the UNIVERSE!!!!!” line would read some non-partisan analysis of the tax implications of the act; it’s clear that this battle cry, like so many conservative battle cries disseminated among the faithful by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, is full of it.
Jennie,
Just check the facts with the CBO itself:
Based on CBO data, Obamacare will impose $4 trillion in new taxes by 2035.
The “Cadillac” tax will lead to reduced medical benefits and higher taxes across all income classes.
The “high-income” surtaxes are not indexed and will eventually hit low- and middle-income families who simultaneously receive Obamacare’s subsidies.
Despite President Obama’s campaign promise to reduce average family premiums by $2,500, families are now paying almost $2,400 more.
Obamacare’s $4 trillion in taxes across all sectors and income classes will diminish economic growth as the private sector faces both higher prices and lower incomes.
With the April 15th tax deadline just past and individuals and businesses freshly reminded of the $2.3 trillion they paid in federal taxes in 2011, Obamacare will unload an additional $4 trillion in new taxes onto the economy between now and 2035.2
As far as “demonizing the opposition” just go back to your analysis of the Republican candidates,I would say you are the Queen of “demonizing”and please don’t us that “doesn’tanyone understand satire” lame excuse!