By Jennie
Kickstarter has been generally viewed as a cool crowd-funding source since its inception in 2009 – a great way to throw $20 to that friend who wants to make an indie film or start an indie band or open an indie tattoo parlor. At worst it’s sometimes seen as a way for people (often wealthy people who should be spending their own damn money, some say) to beg strangers to fund their pet projects. Sometimes these latter efforts are successful – musician Amanda Palmer was criticized for crowd-funding her album through Kickstarter, but she got her money and produced her album, and is now a vocal advocate for Kickstarter and other crowd-funding sources. On the other hand, actress Zosia Mamet (of Girls) was ridiculed last month for starting a Kickstarter to fund the music video she wanted to produce with her sister. The project was a dismal failure; less than 6% of the $32,000 the Mamets were looking for raised.
But there are worse things on Kickstarter than twee indie actresses with folkie ambitions and wealthy, famous parents – namely one Ken Hoinsky, who sought $2,000 to self-publish Above the Game: A Guide to Getting Awesome with Women, a compendium of advice he’s given out for free for the past couple of years on Reddit. You see, Hoinsky is what is known as a PUA – pick up artist – a usually self-applied moniker for men who claim to have captured the secret to picking up women. Usually these guys are more than a bit slimy, but Hoinsky does them one further – by advocating the sort of aggressiveness that some might label “sexual assault.” Among his purported advice (caution; indelicate language ahead):
“Personal space is for pussies.”
“Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.”
“Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.
In just a couple of days, Hoinsky was able to raise 800% of his goal – over $16,000 – mostly from his fellow Redditors. Reddit, for those who don’t know, has a reputation as being a male-dominated site and a haven for MRAs (men’s rights advocates), many of whom are a bit aggrieved by recent inventions like feminism and womens’ beliefs in themselves as autonomous human beings.
Yesterday, there was a hope that Kickstarter would shut the project down on the basis of it violating their terms of service (their guidelines prohibit projects that involve “offensive material”), but as of today the company has declined to take action, citing the fact that the offensive quotes are pulled from Reddit, not from the Kickstarter description of the project itself.
Okay, point taken; still, it’s disturbing to see Kickstarter used for such an offensive, some might even say potentially dangerous, project. Personally, I’d rather fund some rich girl’s indie band.
Jennie has contributed to Imperfect Women since its inception in 2009. She writes about politics, celebrity news, and anything else that catches her interest.
I don’t know where I have been but I have never heard of “Kickstarter.” It sounds like it is a useful service to many.
I had to look up what “twee” meant so now I am really showing my age. And to top it off, when I read “MRAs”, the nurse in me saw “MRSA” and was thinking that Reddit was a haven for MRSA. My, oh my, I need to hang it up.
Anyway, I think Kickstarter better start looking to how they can prevent this from happening in the future. Offensive content is offensive content whether it is on the Kickstarter site itself or linked to the project that is featured on the site.
Interesting. Why does Kickstarter even bother having Terms of Service if they are not going to enforce it? That project does involve “offensive material” and no matter where it originally came from, it’s still on their site. As for ““Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.” that could land a man in jail in most places. Indecent exposure, sexual harassment, lewd misconduct are a few charges that come to mind. I’m with you Jennie, I’d rather fund some rich girl’s indie band, too. Great post, as usual!
Wow, that is gross! I think Kickstart can be a great service, but as with anything, there are some idiots who will take advantage.
I must have been hanging out with Pam because I had never heard of Kickstarter either.
If Hoinsky isn’t offensive, I don’t know what is. His name kinda fits him – Ho-insky. Ha.
I have never heard of kickstarter either. I must live under a rock.
Oh wow, the guy sounds like a keeper (not!). I have heard the basics of kickstarter, nothing in depth. So, it sounds like you could even finance a porn movie as long as no one writes an offensive comment.
I have been reading a bit on this whole thing and I’m actually waiting for this book to come out so I can take a look at it before drawing any conclusions. From what I have read his advice about “Personal space is for pussies” is taken out of context and is included in a chapter for after the man has been dating the girl for a while. I’m curious to see the whole context and what he is telling people.
I do think that since it has caused so many problems the site should remove it or at least let the man edit it to explain where he is coming from.
I didn’t know about Reddit and MRA’s. I had never even heard of kickstarted before, it kind of sounds like gofundme but for the entertainment industry.
Holly, I think the issue is that if it’s billed as being a how-to for “pick up artists”, that’s not really a scene where dating a girl for a while (or more than once, if that) is the goal. The goal is to get women to go to bed with you, apparently using manipulation or even, to some degree, intimidation, if that’s what it takes. It’s a very selfish, ugly POV, IMO. I guess it also bothers me because I know that that sort of aggressiveness *does* work on some women who are socialized not to say no or stand up for themselves. Yes, women should take responsibility for being able to, say, brush off a guy who makes an inappropriate pass, but a lot of younger women just don’t have it in them to do that, and the PUAs show men how to take advantage of that.
April, I think it is similar to gofundme and similar sites, but Kickstarter mostly seems to be about people getting businesses/projects off the ground.
I think the whole internet has become one big fundraising venture…ok ok I exaggerate. But I can’t help think a fool and his money are soon parted.
Here is some great pick up advice from Pattypie and it’s FREE FREE FREE
Be Kind. Be Sincere. Be treatin’ your girl like you would want someone to be treatin’ your mom/sister/daughter.
Follow that and the chicks will be flocking to you and you’ll put ridiculous pick up artist books out of business.
This message has been brought to you by the letter PIE 😉
I share your disgust at this project but must admit that I am glad we live in a country where people can speak freely (no matter how offensive). His opinions sicken me, as does the fact that he apparently has fans, but he’s not pitching to me and I don’t have to read his offensive material if I choose not to. I am in NO WAY supporting him, just saying that I’m glad we aren’t over-regulated even though losers like him get to exercise their rights as much as we do.
WOW I’ve seen Kickstarter a few times lately when it comes to indie brands which I think it a lovely way to get a head start for people who have talent but not the funds..
It’s very worrying that it’s been used in such a way – I actually shuddered at those quotes.. If he tried that with me… well I’m sure you know.
I have never heard of this before but what nasty people..they should not allow that kind of behavior
Wow really? “Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.”
That man would be speaking in a very high voice for the rest of his life.
I can understand the outrage at Kickstarter but I am more outraged by the number of supporters.
I’ve never heard of this site before, but wow…I would smack that guy if I ever met him and I would never want to associate with a site or company that allows such behavior & comments to continue.
A program like Kickstarter is only as good as those willing to enforce the policies and procedures that were set up to be followed! They may find that they are alienating the exact person they wish to attract because of their lax attitude.
wow, i had no clue this site even existed. we use various online sites to help fundraise for our animal rescues medical bills and we don’t always meet our goals, so it saddens me to think that people would rather give money to this D-bag than animals in need. 🙁
Yikes. However.. like anything else, if you don’t support it, don’t spend your money there. KWIM?
Thanks for this post I had never heard of Kickstarter until today.
Nicole, that’s generally how I feel about Kickstarter and fundraising efforts that people don’t agree with – no one is forcing you to participate. I pretty much feel that way about this project, though if it violates Kickstarter’s TOS then I think they shouldn’t allow it.
It’s more that I m just disgusted that something like this is considered so acceptable by some people, that it can be publicly touted and supported. It says something about how women are viewed in our society, particularly in some segments.
Kickstarter needs to do better. Campaigns like these do not belong on that site.
I never heard of it either, lol. We share he same rock.